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Separate 4X4 licence classing. Do we need it?

Amazing photoshopped off road 4X4 driver licence

With hooning in National Parks raising its ugly head again last week, cries for a licence classification for 4X4 vehicles, or at least off-road licensing, has been called for by some.
This idea comes up every now and again. Motorcycles have their own license, as do heavy vehicles. Should off-road oriented vehicles require a different licence?

Licence Motives

On the safety based technical side, there’s two factors at play. First, it seeks to identify that off-road capable vehicles have different dynamics than road-oriented vehicles. This call also seeks to identify that off-road environments offer different dynamics to on-road situations. A bit of a No-Sh!t, Sherlock situation, really, and very much important.

Top-heavy loads and imperfect surfaces. A recipe for disaster, unless educated.
A little bit of education could prevent dangerous situations including overloading when off-road.

…and then there are politics. NIMBYs. Not In My Back Yarders. The overbearing people who want to limit everyone else from doing something the NIMBY thinks is illegitimate. The extremist greenie element lie squarely in this category. These are the people who get tracks and areas closed to motorised traffic. The empty cans that rattle the most.

Methods

For the technical aspects, training and education is key, and already available. Presently one licence category covers everything from a Kia Piccanto to a 79 Series ‘Cruiser via a Porsche 911, pretty broad strokes of the brush. Some brands of 4X4 give training vouchers to new buyers, and some buyers even take them up on the offer. Nearly all clubs offer training. Many commercial training companies exist. Nationally recognised training modules reflect learning outcomes for off-road driving.
This can satisfactorily ensure that any would-be off-road driver has basic knowledge of vehicle dynamics off road, and hopefully a healthy respect for the environment they are driving in.

Getabout 4WD Training Courses can teach you basic introduction courses, all the way up to advanced driving and recovery techniques.
4WD training courses can improve a driver’s respect for the terrain and teach mechanical sympathy-which also goes a long way to preserving the tracks we drive.

For the politics and NIMBYs, a licence may be just the ticket we need. Laws are changed to suit motorcyclists, because their numbers are known and accountable and that means political persuasion. Gun owners have a voice, because strict licensing means numbers are known, there is accountability and again, political persuasion. Amateur fishers get infrastructure built and non-commercial fishing supported, in NSW at least. Why? Licences. Numbers. Accountability.
National Parks may have an idea of how many cars enter their gates, but State Forests certainly don’t, neither for Crown Land. Unsealed roads exist everywhere, and private properties can’t be regulated either.
A licence might just be the ticket 4X4 owners and off-road enthusiasts need to be able to stand up and be counted. At the moment the Australian Bureau of Statistics doesn’t distinguish privately owned vehicles between road-oriented cars or heavily modified for off-road vehicles. There could be a dozen of us, there could be 300,000. Maybe a couple of million!

Over to you

Do we need an off-road 4X4 licence?

You and I, we are the stakeholders here, it’s our recreation and for many their livelihood.

If we can solve all the world’s problems around a camp fire, throw your ideas around here. The MR4X4 team will keep up with your debates and see if there is much of a consensus in a future blog.

 

193 Comments

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  • I think this is an Excellent idea… As long as it is across the board. Requirement to own a 4×4 is this license, Like said in the article, Similar to motorbikes.
    Can’t be a license to use the parks, as people will own the car, and think that gives them the ability to go into the remote locations.

    Would also reduce the 4wd shopping trolleys around, where the drivers don’t understand the size and maneuverability constraints which come with such large vehicles.

    Was also thinking a higher age restriction, to weed out the hoon behaviour.. But hoons exist in all age brackets.

  • No, I don’t think a separate 4×4 licence is needed, however I’m a big fan of having a separate towing licence. Truck drivers have to complete a lot of training and spend a lot of money to comply to the various laws in Australia, yet Arthur and Martha can hook up a 40ft caravan to their Landcruiser with no formal training or experience and they’re right to go.

  • No we don’t need one. This is just another step up the ladder towards a complete nanny state. We don’t need another licence as it will stop nothing. It won’t stop people being tools, we know not to drink and drive , speed , text on the phone etc but people who have a license do. The government already know how many 4wders there are but they don’t care just like they don’t care that they charge (NSW) 3 times as much for a PWC licence and 4 times as much rego than a boat. They claim it is because they require more policing yet with no evidence of such. They just don’t want pwc’s or to give up the money.

  • I think this could also apply to people who tow caravans for the first time. Work all you life driving a “Kia Piccanto ” and then jump into a 79 series towing a 3.5T van,,, yeah no difference there!!

  • What a load of rubbish. A new form of licence won’t stop hoons. Look at the blacktop roads hooning still happens.
    So I own a 4×4 that I don’t take off road, do I still need a special licence?
    Why is it the mass suffers because of a few idiots.
    I’ve been 4x4ing since the 60s. All types of terrain. A different sticker on my licence won’t make mr a better driver.
    Ask yourself if you now drive a registered golf buggy that you can’t take on the road makes you a safer buggy driver. Answer is no, but it’s a great revenue maker for the government.
    I’m sick of a world today where one incident gets onto social media and people start wanting to change the way we live. I assume that this 4×4 driving idiot would of been ok if not in one of our protected national parks but on private land.

  • Ya gotta be Bloody Joking, more Nanny State Regulations in Australia, as if we don’t have enough now.
    More money into State Coffers just because of a few Bad apples.

  • And it will stop what????. The license won’t stop the idiots who carry out the hooning destroying our landscape nor will it stop the idiot polluters who leave their rubbish for others to deal with. Overloading, well that may be reduced with education.

  • I would not think that licencing gives significant figures. Most drivers would go for the licence, even when not owning a 4×4 car, “just in case”. Indeed the only exact figures would be obtained by extracting statistics at registration offices.
    Also, Australia is world champion of “tickets” – why add an other one ?? these tickets do not, have never shown ability to do this or that, but are more a discret tax system, or complacency with the vast industry of pseudo training companies.

    Finally, as often, the solution is education, education, and … education through families, schools, mass media .etc.

  • No need for a new license. Just use the existing SISODRV302a qualification. It’s national – no dramas with states. Just make it an entry requirement to 4X4 areas.

  • Think this idea has merit, as why do we really get a 4wd…. to get away. And this is where getting to those places requires alot more concentration on our driving as we are usually loaded up a bit at the least one way or another, can also be carrying extra fuel etc. Also the mentality of I’ve got a big bad truck get out of my way needs addressing.

  • To tow a caravan/trailer over a certain weight should require a test to be passed, both knowledge and skill.

  • How will this stop people hooning in the bush!
    Just because your done a 4×4 course, doesn’t mean your going to do the right thing. It’s just another bloody licence. Look at the hoons on the road, now they use to be good little two shoes when the instructor was sitting beside them. But as soon as they are with their mates BANG.

    I think it’s just another money grabbing exercise. Gees soon you will need a licence to walk down the road.

  • We’ll thats a stupid idea.

    Tell me how a 4×4 license will stop hoons?

    A car license hasn’t stopped people in cars doing burnouts and racing nor has a motorcycle license stopped people from speeding and doing wheelies?

    What are park rangers for?

    As a community if we see something we should report it.

  • Here we go again the few ruining it for the rest. We already live in a nanny state/ country so NO I don’t agree with it. Put permits in place for the rough stuff, we’re already over regulated & over taxed as it is.

  • Thoroughly agree on licensing. Could also include testing and training of non standard/highighly modified & engineered 4wd’s.

  • I don’t see the point all it does it make us pay for another license. And people can still do a test with out playing up then go and cut hoops out the bush. It’s no different to when you got your P’s. You would have drivin nicely so you would pass then that arvo go out with your mates and do a few burnouts on some back road to celebrate. I understand the need to stop hooning so our parks and tracks don’t get shut but this isn’t the solution.

  • I agree with Brad,
    Personally i would love to see a special licence. Maybe with “extra optional modules?” May be a Federal one? There are many possibilities that may or may not be workable, like if you complete a “tread lightly” course this may allow you free entry to National parks on scanning your licence. This may or may no be workable. Like many ideas shoot them up and they may come to fruit, but keep your mouth closed and they never will.

    Some people will no doubt shoot me down in flames, That is there right and they have as much right to express their own opinion as i do, but i feel something needs to be done to stop the hoons and goons and IF the 4WD industry can get it together and approach the Govt with a workable idea it will no doubt show us in better light and be better for us than when it comes to a point where The Government steps in and says enough! And the results that would go with it. It will tell the Government that we have had enough of the idots and we want it to stop.

  • I agree a segmentation would be a good idea. Also make some form of certification required and maybe to use the parks be required to be a member of a registered club. Clubs have ethics policies and that would provide a starting point.
    I don’t agree with minimum age restrictions, hoons and goons are not only on their P-plates… its more about people that just lack respect, respect for others and the bush. I do think, that hoon laws should apply to the bush with the vehicle being impounded (if that doesn’t already apply)

  • I think that this could work for us in lots of ways, but where will the line be drawn on defining what a 4WD is?

    Will a Subaru be classed as a 4WD, or a Kia Sorrento? Will there be separate classification of a heavy 4WD like a Silverado etc?

    It is not going to be easy.

    The caravanners might get snarky (towing license anyone?) if they never actually go off road, just like the soccer mums. So is the license to drive off road or to drive a 4WD? Will you need a license to drive on a gravel road in a Commodore?

    Aghhhhh

  • Yep, while we’re at it, we add the caravan/trailer towing license. Maybe couriers need a special license, as a professional road user above the lowly commoner. How about one for anyone who has a powerful vehicle (HSV, FPV) or a ‘I think I’m road race capable’ license vehicle (toyota 86, WRX, any commodore on p plates). Maybe even a convertible license so we known when its suitable to put the top down, or maybe to weed out balding overweight middle age guys (me) from putting the top down, ever.
    Lets just license everything.
    On the 4×4 license we could also have sub-classes – W (winch trained), DL (diff locker licensed), GVM-E (a GVM exemption so they can load the vehicle with as much as they want and not care)

  • Mmmm being trained and licenced does not stop hooning. Enforcement is only having a moderate effect on our roads and has been unable to stop hooning. Take Mobile Phone usage and its effect on motor vehicle road deaths etc. It is not education and licensing that is the problem, it is attitude and how is that changed, it is something that is developed and licensing is not the answer to attitude development.

  • What a load of rubbish, yet another crazy idea. Because of a minority of idiots you want to punish the rest of us that have common sense. A 4×4 license really!!! Not everyone that owns a 4by lives in the city and needs a lesson in how to drive off road. Think of all the country folk that only own 4bys and drive them everywhere from around the farm to check the stock to town for groceries and supplies and then drag the horse float to a camp draft or the like. This is such a narrow minded view I can’t believe you lot. We don’t need MORE gov’t interference in our lives.

  • Good thought but where do you draw the line? Next we will have licences for 2 door cars, 4 door cars, station wagons etc. I think a much better and much more warranted licence is the need for a caravan (or large trailer) towing licence. There are far more people on the road with overloaded caravan/tow vehicle combinations and only have a vague idea about their respective weights (as is evidenced by recent educational exercises in Victoria) than people who hoon in National Parks.

  • Great, another way for the government to make more money,
    It will change nothing unless all tracks and Parks are barricaded with a scanner to scan your licence to open the gate,

  • What a fantastic idea for government revenue and control. I would be happy to add another license to my portfolio, car, motorcycle, HR, fishing (3 states) gun, drone operater, trade. We could even include further classifications such as light SUV, medium SUV, large SUV, occupational user, recreational user, caravan user.
    Where does it stop in the Nanny state we are encouraging maybe introduce bicycle licenses, bush walking licensesetc.

  • I don’t think that a “special license” for a 4×4 will solve anything , except people with the license anything and everybody except me. This will be followed by more restrictions on the type and size of vehicle you can have and maybe outlaw some makes and models. Australia is one of the most overated countries in the so called free world. Is and endorsement on my license or a special license all of a sudden going to identify me as if i start hooning or tresspassing, i think not license already identify the vehicle and owner, and if the owner is not the driver laws already exist to compedd the owner to identify the driver or they can be charged. Laws and penalties already exist and some of the penalties are ridiculously severe when compared to some more serious offences. Why don’t the courts enforce the laws we already have instead of calling for yet more restrictions and laws making it even harder for the average person or family to enjoy themselves. Rest assured if implemented there will be added government fees added to the already hefty fees associated with larger vehicles.

  • What a dumb idea. Do we need a different licence for high powered vehicles…no. Do we need a licence for vehicles with poor rear visibility like vans, no. Another licence for a motor home, no. towing a trailer, no. A motorbike is not a car is not a truck, simple, but you can buy a 2WD that will go bush. More nanny state rubbish from the people who will never go bush. Not all of us are morons.

  • What a dumb idea. Firstly if you want to know about vehicle dynamics do a 4wd driving course. Secondly join a 4wd club or have your say through your state automobile club.
    What about all those tradies out there who drive 4×4 Utes for work and never go near a 4wd track.

  • I have to agree with Brad here and say that license AND ownership of the 4×4 should be dependent upon completion of recognized training, either through a Club or private-provider. I have a gun license, guess what, have to do the course, pass the tests before the license is given, then apply for a permit to purchase a gun. Same should apply. This would certainly rid the roads of many of the Soccer-Mum 4x4s or ensure they knew how to drive them safely.

  • I agree there should be a licence category for 4×4’s …too many Eddie the Experts out there who own 4x4s. So many accidents happen in the bush and other remote locations because of inexperience and being very cocky thinking they can go anywhere and everywhere…I am a 4×4 owner and the amount of times I come across people who have rolled, over loaded the vehicle or cooked the engine out remote and rural locations is amazing…bring the licences on!!!

  • I am increasingly curious about this mysteriously anonymous person, known as “Some”. He or she seems to be the biggest sook I have ever heard of, always running crying to the Government to legislate and control more and more of our lives – “Think of the Children” (TM) or “If it only saves ONE life” (TM) seem to be their mantra. Look, you simply cannot interfere with the natural selection process – nature always finds a way. “Some” is always anonymous, or perhaps “some” loonie city dweller (I repeat myself), and is the perfect made up “Call-to-Action” or excuse to just make things up. “Some” is currently incredibly popular with certain sections of our mainstream media, as they are always discussing their clear mandate to immediately introduce compulsory training for towing. Now we must implement our clear mandate to introduce compulsory training & licencing for 4WDs, because “HOONS!”, Heavy Vehicles & Temporary Aussies. Of course, the various Training Providers are nodding along sagely while taking out more adverts in the various media outlets. As if a licence & training course will stop “HOONS!”. They are flouting the existing rules already. This sort of BS is the thin-edge of the wedge, just ask any firearms owner or fisherman about regulatory scope creep !

  • This proposal is absolute garbage . A hoon is a hoon ,put a hoon in a barina and they will behave like a hoon ,put a hoon in a 4×4 and they will behave no different . The key to this is driver education

  • Sounds great until you think about it in detail.
    What is the real definition of a 4wd. Some sports cars are 4wd. Or does having transmission with low range cover it? Again issues arise here as technology is already replacing low range.

  • I believe that this is a great idea. Along with a towing course and licence requirement.
    This will help people understand what they expected to do when off road or towing, provide a practical background on their capabilities before hitting the road or dirt and help them understand what their vehicle is capable of doing for them.
    Over time my wife and myself have completed both types of courses and found them very helpful.
    Another cause for concern is each state having their own requirements. This became evident lately with police doing roadworthy inspections in Qld.
    Australia needs to adopt a Federal and uniform approach to registration and all licencing.
    Living close to the NSW/Qld border with a Qld HC licence, I found I had to get and Qld and NSW Bus Drivers Authority and a Qld and NSW working with children clearance along with a Federal police check just to get casual employment as a school bus driver at a base on the border that covers both states on their runs. This doubled my expense as a retiree before i can even seek employment.

  • I can’t see it’s going to make a difference to the hoons, licenced or not, trained or not, they’ll still hoon as they do now, as I did a long time ago when the earth was green!
    I agree with Brad, it might help the 4wd shopping trolley situation.

    However I’d like to see a towing licence or to have towing and prcatice added as an element to licence training.

  • SO I think we need to look at the Demographic the license is aimed at. Keep in mind that a lot of 4×4 are driven by pensioners to tow their vans. Now I am all for the training and crack down on the hoons side of things but unfortunately the moment you mention training and licenses, government eyes light up and they start pushing the cash button on their tills. So now you need a car license, a 4×4 license and heaven forbid the almighty caravan license that every impatient road user is salivating over. This ends up by being a considerable cost to the poor old pensioner/grey nomad. The follow on effect is less travel by the nomads and so less money spent around the country in small towns needy economies. Why can’t training an awareness be enforced without adding a cost to it? For those of you out there who are dead set on imposing another cost why don’t we start looking at the push bike riders? Maybe it is time to get them to register, insure and license their activity? They bike in the bush too! Now watch that one set the boiler to overload.

  • I can just start to hear the band called the grey nomads starting up, but this is up there with having a endorsement to tow a caravan behind the new 200 series, No experience in either just set off and forget

  • Ive owned landrovers and land Cruisers all my driving life,and have a MR and bike licience,so now at 55 I don’t think I should have to do any test to keep on driving my 4wds,a refresher coarse would be ok ,but the government,would cash in on the fee for new licience.Its a free country we need less bullshit not more

  • Why is the first response always more legislation, licensing, fees, charges, red tape, bureaucratic and Government intervention? The last thing any of us need (4×4’ers or the general public) is more “Government in our lives and faces”. If there is a problem with hooning, target the hoons. If there is a problem with overloaded or illegally modified vehicles, target those individuals. There are already sufficient laws and regulation to deal with these things. For the rest of us who do the right thing, get out of our faces and lives and leave us be.

  • I have had the lot, bike truck, car licence etc and currently drive a 4wd. Half of 4wd purchased do not go off road and are purchased solely four safety and visibility reasons. This would kill the sales of most SUV’s other than the 2wd’s but these can still go off road if required so would they fall into this category, what about cars and utes that go bush. Rather than another licence, the parks and wildlife should clamp down on the ‘hoons’ although that brings up the amount of people that needs to be employed so that would not happen. Following on from this would be a “dirt bike” licence, a caravan licence, a fifth wheeler licence and so on making it just a money making exercise.
    Need to put this back in the box and stop advertising the suggestion just in case a politician reads your magazine

  • Sorry
    Again this is just another idea that would become a revenue raiser for the Govt
    Who would police it?
    Grey nomads, oldies beware
    Just target the small amount of idiots and leave us responsible owners to peace

  • Hooning off road is not going to go away because of a special 4×4 license. Undergoing 4×4 training and being issued with a 4×4 license is not going to stop antisocial behaviour. It is the mindset of those involved. Hooning happens on sealed roads as well and it has nothing to do with licensing.

  • Hi,
    I bought a Suzuki GV in 2012 and decided to learn how to drive a 4WD so that I knew enough not to get into trouble. Have always loved camping in the great outdoors, usually National Parks and now find myself owning a 2017 Hilux (more stuff than I could fit in the Suzi) and am planning my big lap.
    I have found being in a 4WD club wonderful to meet like-minded people, and the skills the trainers have taught me are invaluable. Part of the training is definitely learning how to respect the land we travel over and when you know the correct 4WDing skills, you learn how to look after the environment properly, how to look after your vehicle properly, and how to enjoy yourself out in our wonderful country at the same time.
    Cheers,
    Glynis

  • Great idea but any cost of licensing should be kept to a minimum and go towards the upkeep of the areas we as 4wdrivers love to inhabit. The license could be issued at the completion of a recognised 4wd training course. There are too many people out there on the tracks doing the wrong thing and puting our ‘escape from reality’ at risk. You only have to look at 4wd youtube videos to see what some selfish and uneducated 4wdrivers are doing out there.

  • Not all 4X4 goes off road in fact I estimate that 90% of 4X4 are not purchased to go off road they are purchased to tow be it a boat, caravan etc just in case you get in that sticky situation and need the 4X4. I use it a lot on gravel roads which is not considered off road. So my opinion is a special licence to drive a 4X4 is not required and will not achieve what people are setting out to achieve.

  • I totally agree. As an owner and driver of 4wd vehicles since 1983 ,both privately and professionally and as a trainer of driver/guides in remote areas all over Australia and Southern Africa. I am now back home on the Sunshine Coast and appalled at the behavior of the F—Wit mob who all now own a 4wd of some description and think they can drive it – especially on the beach and Glass House Mtn tracks which are now destroyed. As a licensed motor cycle rider and heavy vehicle driver, I also have to hold a license for my boat and my jet ski – A separate license and proof of some basic level of competence in a 4WD vehicle is simply logical! Bring it on!! …and Get some F— Wits off the beach!

  • Yes. I absolutely agree. It would make Australian 4WD drivers more responsible and accountable for the driving habits. It would also limit the number of backpackers who hire a 4WD and in the majority cases have absolutely no experience and no idea how to drive an off road vehicle.

    While we are at it why don’t we also have a special licence class for caravanners as well. I am a long term caravan owner and I shudder when I see some van owners driving habits and their lack of ability to reverse there vans.

    When are we as motorist going to take responsibility for our own driving habits.

  • Another Green Logic idea pulled from the nether regions while bent over ! Are you seriously suggesting that a license will stop hoon behaviour?

  • The military course is at least 2wks long plus several upgrades as time goes by.
    But no course can teach the common sense sadly missing in most of today’s younger folk.
    Common sense used to be taught by parents, but we all know that parenrs stopped teaching their kids many moons ago.
    No course will instill the necessary respect for public or private property, common values, decency and general respect for nature and environment.
    Only more cracking down by law enforcement and getting locked out of more and more places will prevent the rampant destruction about to be unleashd by uncaring idiots in vehicles they have not earned the right to drive!

  • I think a 4WD licence class is a great idea, but don’t hold out much hope that it could ever become a reality (it would require the pollies to actually develop spines!).
    Drivers of (proper) 4WDs should have specific training for both off- and on-road driving. Even if your truck is used exclusively for escaping the rat race, chances are you will still be driving it on the roads to get to your chosen playground. And it is when you’re punting your 3 tonne rig through the suburbs that your driving skill, attentiveness and courtesy are on show to the rest of the community. Every day you see people on the roads who use their large 4WD (or SUV) to bully other drivers, which gives all of us a bad reputation.
    Given the seemingly unending rise in SUV sales, a key issue would have to be defining the criteria that determine which vehicles need the special licence. Criteria could be any combination of: vehicle GVM, having low-range gearing, having raised suspension, having bigger tyres, etc. The trouble is, the possibilities are endless – and if the rules aren’t simple, they either can’t, or won’t, be enforced (anyone seen a P-plater driving a V8 Commodore? Of course you have!). So where (and how) you draw the line is paramount. Nissan X-Trail? Toyota Kluger? Think of the Hilux range – from single cab 2WD Workmate tradie special through to the new Rugged X weekend warrior – where is the cutoff for your standard class C licence?

  • More red tape ! ……..Not required .There are enough coppers,Rangers ,public informers .dash cam,mobile phone recording ,cameras mounted on trees around now without regulating it more.They are off the highways and only likely to damage their selves ……

  • Hoons will always be out there, 2 wd or 4 wd. Personally seen this on a number of occasions and know that nothing can be done, because it’s physically impossible. Issuing of a licence is a privilege earned and that means rules have to be followed.
    A 4×4 licence is rubbish and those who want it are either in for it for other reasons.

  • when does a dirt road become off road. this would be a nightmare to admin and police. what about private parks, its their land, ya can drive buggys etc on some. when does a AWD become a 4WD, a dual range is not the answer any more. and lets face- just cause you got a ‘off road’ or towing or heavy vehicle or boat or jet ski license, does not make anyone more or less responsible.

  • No. No. Hell no! If the main basis for this lunacy is “hooning” in National Parks, State Parks, Commons and rural roads, then another licence class will do nothing to stop the behavior. Anyone with a brain knows it’s wrong. It’s the hoons that knowingly engage in the behavior. Federal and State Governments have been steadily slashing their staff numbers over the years, which has dramatically reduced the amount of time Rangers can spend on monitoring this behavior.

    Both Federal and State Governments (esp. NSW) are continuing to push a “centralisation” model for departments and resources. As such Police patrols in these areas are becoming rarer and rarer.

    If you want to stop “hooning” it has to be done through increased staffing of Parks and increased engagement from Police. Monitoring and enforcement. Having a couple more letters on your already existing licence (driving your registered vehicle) means stuff all unless the authorities interact with the driver.

    As far as the “shopping trolley” argument above goes, I have seen car park collisions with just about every type of vehicle available, however most were cars. I don’t accept that 4WD’s are any worse than any other type of ‘car’.

    As far as “numbers and accountability” goes… 4WD numbers are already available every year through sales figures. Having numbers of drivers with the extra letters is just statistical data collection. It is not going to reduce illegal behavior. A 4WD enthusiasts party? Do we really need something like this? Don’t we already have these options available?

    Again to be held accountable you have to be caught… extra letters are not going to help here either.

    Finally. The Costs. Extra licence fees. Mandatory 4WD course fees (you won’t get the licence without the course – think motorcycles). Extra registration fees? What do you think the insurance companies will do? Put premiums up or down? (yeah.. I’m laughing at that too…)

    No thanks.

  • i think who-ever came up with this idea is a _ _ _ _wit, i believe in treading lightly, the only people to gain from this will be the people who have run these so called offroad courses, but then again the way our government is now-a-days i wouldn’t put it past them to try to implement this stupid idea. wake up people!

  • Having a licence, of any type, does not stop hoons. They will still hoon without a licence. Catch them and take the vehicle off them, forever, may not stop them either but its a start.

  • Oh Dear Oh Me,
    So we want to build another bureaurcracy with more rules and more ways to give out unnecessary fines. Lets face it, you won’t stop the Nimby’s or greenies whinging, and we all have a vote to exercise our rights and a keyboard to let our public servants know what we think. I don’t see accountability, I see controls through more and more rules and regulation.
    You will not stop hoons doing the stupid stuff any more effectively just because they have a specific license., As far as how many of us that have 4WD’s, there is plenty of data through vehicle registrations and insurances.
    So a car license, covers vehicles that are not much bigger than a go-cart and have a top speed of as little as 120 Kph, up to sedans that are longer, wider, and larger than any regular 4WD and/or capable of 300Kph plus. Then there is the issue of legally able to drive a vehicle and trailer of up to a GCM of 7 or 8 tonnes or more, and yet cannot drive a small truck with a GVM of more than 4.5 tonnes. Towing with a trailer more than say 1.5 tonne really needs attention and at least a competency certificate.
    There are many training organisations and clubs for 4WD owners to obtain up-skilling. Many forbies rarely, if ever leave the black-top, and are used for little more than as an SUV.

  • I agree it’s a worthy idea not sure it warrants it’s own license but certainly knowing that a driver has received knowledge and awareness can’t hurt. But I cant help think it would just be another revenue raiser. It wont be policed effectively, it wont stop the 1%ers who make the media doing the wrong thing and unlikely to change much. In terms of ‘numbers’ there’s no direct link between a license holder any more than there is to owning the vehicle. The reference to gun licensing is flawed, you cant legally own / purchase a gun without one so what about the majority of people who own a AWD / 4WD and never take it off the road? Fishing licenses in my view fall into the revenue statement – I’d suggest any ‘improvements’ are certainly not proportional to the revenue raised. The elephant in the room is enforcement / policing in that there is no point in having rules of they are never enforced which could be another can of worms.
    Also I think Caravan / towing are more important in terms of regulation than 4wd licensing. Definitely needs more scrutiny than it has presently.

  • I have 4wd driven most of my life and I came from a rev head v8 background, all of my kids own 4wds of various types and use them as they should, to enjoy, the out doors and what Australia has to offer.
    I’m not against separate liscencing to own and drive 4wds bit I think the issue is respect. As a rev head v8 driver when younger, I did not or would not ever park in front of someone’s house and do burn out nor would I race my car in a suburban area. Respect.
    My kids are the same they would never go into a national park or open 4wd area and desecrate it with their vehicle, because they were all taught the value, respect.
    This is what should really be taught to all new 4×4 owners to stop the bush hoons and the bush vandals and generally every other 4×4 law breaker destroying the country we love and giving the generally good 4×4 community a bad name.

  • So, firstly a 4wd needs to be defined. We have many all wheel drive cars available. Many sports cars are technically 4 wheel drives as all 4 wheels have drive from the transmission / gearbox. How many tradespeople have to buy 4wd’s to get a 1 tonne ute and will never take them “off road”. Does this include them?
    Then we have the question of what is “off road” My 4wd see’s more dirt than most 4wd fanatics as I have to drive down klm’s of dirt to get home every day.
    If I owned a sports car what stops me from driving at 200klms p/hr down some back road in the middle of the night with no real chance of getting caught. So what stops a person with a 4wd license hooning in a forest or NP where you may not see any other vehicles in a weekend?
    Come on people, this is just an article that PC Media has written to get extreme views from people. Well I admit it forced me to write a response. WHAT A JOKE PC Media, why not get your writers to talk about camping destinations within 2 hours of capital cities or something useful.

  • Regarding the towing license, the issue stems back to the lerners license.
    Learners in NSW are not allowed to tow. Once there on their P plates they can tow anything (within reason) but how do they learn? As a parent I wanted to be able to teach my children about what is different about towing. Fortunatly they all still talked to me and listened while on their P plates, but there is no garantee that this will happen all the time. All my children have learned to drive the 4×4 not for the pleasure of the drive but as a means toget to really nice off road camp sites, and have had the informal support to do this. Any system brought in must propote this sort of “on the job” training as well.

  • Dumb idea. We need attitude and culture change, not more regulation and fees. If we stop putting up with idiots, they stop thinking its smart, funny, etc.

  • Absolutely not. There is no sensible or justifiable reason for the need to do so. Maybe a towing licence at sometime for anything over 2 ton, but not for a 4WD. Maybe they should rethink being able to drive up to a 4 ton pantec truck on a standard vehicle licence. I’ve seen older people hiring these that should not be driving them, same said for those towing horse floats or large boats. Today’s modern 4 WD’s are build & drive better than some normal cars, and have all the same safety & comfort features. As already said, many 4WD’s never go off-road because they are purchased tow rigs or “people movers”, and there
    s nothing wrong with that, it’s called “choice”, something extremists and governments what to take away from us.
    The government and extreme Greens have another hidden agenda with this. The Greens see it as a start to getting rid of 4WD’s and access to National & State Parks, While the government just sees making lots more money from testing & licencing from their motorist “cash-cows.

  • As stated on other replys we don’t need another licence for 4x4s its just another revenue raiser to appease the greenies, its easy to say that certain 4×4 drivers need to be more responssible and that’s not easy. So please everyone keep filming these idiots and reporting them it might help, all though I suspect it will only help the greenies so education is the only option there. As for a towing licence for caravans I think it’s the only way we can try an avoid all of these fools that over load their vans and quite frankly don’t understand how a caravan reacts under different conditions. The days of loading it up to the hilt are long gone.

  • We have licenses to drive on the road already. They seem to get issued easily enough. Yet there is more than a few people out there who could not reverse park a 4cyl buzz box, let alone larger vehicle. Likewise there are people “hooning”. So unfortunately issuing licences for all activities (towing, off road, dirt roads) to ONLY those that show real competence would mean half of the licences out there would need to be taken back. Whats next – wet weather licences?

    There will always be incompetent (or less competent??) people in society or those that choose to do things that others would not. There will also be a large spread of skills in between different users.

    More licence classes for relatively everyday driving activities will not change that – just simply add a level of policing and cost for the average person, with no change in outcomes.

    Granted some people are dangerous and should never be let on the road (but they are already licenced), however that exists with or without them towing or going off road.

    Jet ski license is another great example – it changes nothing. I have one, as well as a boat, I tow 3.5t, I go “offroad”. My wife has licences for all of these same things BUT she does not really do any with high confidence, so rarely if ever will do any of these things. Point being, getting a licence does not make you safer. They are issued way too easily, people still injure themselves on jetskis for example…..

    Best left alone as is and just be sure to watch out your not in their path. Those that are doing things beyond their skills can worry about their own problems (or choose not to do whatever it is they are doing). Its is their car/boat/caravan/life they are endangering. The rest of us juts need to be very mindful of them…

  • Not just government coffers but if they say you need training it’s building a whole new training industry and a money grab from all of us. I dont belong to a club us we camp in remote places hopefully where there is no one.
    This idea is just ANOTHER control to try and keep an eye on us.

  • what a stupid idea I have had 4/4s for 44 years never had an accident now I use one mainly for towing I do think that the government should make it free and compulsory for new van owners to do a course in towing .Licences will not stop hooning being an ex trucky some of the things you see on the road make you cringe

  • Accountability can come from vehicles sold, surely? Bikes, trucks, cars.
    Bikes go off road, trucks go off road. We’ll need a licence to go on foot soon!

  • So some idiot is seen doing donuts in a 4wd and people start bellyaching about special licences, someone doesn’t tow their caravan very well so there are cries for a special licence. I’ve seen people with bad parenting behaviours so maybe there should be a licence to breed! Where are you going to draw the line? I believe the answer lies in going back to the beginning and having proper training. Obtaining a drivers licence is too easy, more extensive training is required and NOT teaching by friends and family who only pass on their own bad habits. Proper certified training on a user pays basis. You want to tow above 750Kg do a towing course, take your certificate in and have your licence endorsed accordingly. Want to drive a high clearance vehicle? Do the certified course etc.

  • I very much doubt that a special licence will achieve much. It will do nothing for competence or bad behaviour – that much is clear from normal road use where behaviours have been changed by policing technology and penalties where bad behaviours have a very high probability of impacting your hip pocket. The change in road behaviours has taken decades. The numbers of four wheel drives on the road is well known from existing registration data and the number of modified four wheel drives can readily be inferred from sales data from the major retailers- will a new licence class add much of use? I doubt it as having a licence, like having a four wheel drive, is no guarantee that you are actually using it. The idea is regulation for the sake of it.

  • What about every day use of a 4×4 , we go out & I have a few too many- my wife cant drive as she hasnt got a 4×4 licence – educating people about their car may be better 👍

  • I think you will find that those who do the (SIS0DRV302A) certified course (above photo number 3, “4WD training courses…”) already have the correct mindset. A mandatory license or a course will not automatically make the problem element socially compliant unless accompanied by a lobotomy.
    As much as I hate it, seems a more effective deterrent would be the threat of prosecution from exposure much like the public supplied dashcam name and shame video has today. Even sans phone signal, just use the phone to video the action and send it over to the appropriate authorities when a signal is regained.

  • No we don’t need a new licence after 4WD for 20 plus years and respecting the environment even before people were talking about it I don’t think we need a new licence what we need to do to the hoons is remove there licence and never let them behind a 4WD again restrict them to tar roads and standard vehicles just like we do with the power restrictions on L and p plates. The other issue is I have seen some people in 4WD clubs instructing people on how to drive a track with not a clue on what they are doing in fact is was dangerous so why would I let people like this tell me what to do with my truck or tell me how to drive on tracks.

  • Your deadv right KEVIN WHAT A LOT OF NONSENSE , ANOTHER BRAINLES IDEA , FANCY GETTING BRAIN DEAD GOVERNMENTS INVOLVED IN ANYTHING,

  • This is the biggest load of BS I’ve ever heard. Let’s bring it back to grass roots. Teach people to drive properly in the first place. How easy is to get a license? Ok just play the game, jump through the hoops and do the right thing and your in. The police do thier best but the courts let everyone down. Let’s make it a $5000 fine for the first offence and a 5 year goal sentence for the 2nd. OH goals full. Create employment and build another one. 3rd offence ,,, organ doner. Problem solved. I’m retired now after 38 years driving buses, tour coaches and trucks and YES I think a towing license makes sense but as for the rest of it just teach properly in the first place and make the guilty ones pay dearly and leave the rest of us alone. We are over governed already.

  • NO NO NO it would not stop anything, it might limit idiot’s but lets stop buckling to the minorities. so it is already crazy too much red tape which is why some people break the rules.

  • Hoons on the road have licences to legally drive on them but still hoon. The simple and best answer is to take their vehicle and crush it. No second or third chance first time done.

  • I am sick of paying for something that we already have access to. If it comes in make it free. I am sure it would go with all the fines as every opportunity would give them a reason to book you, so they would certainly be able to pay for it if they bring it in.

    Why do people always jump to the TAX IT!! option. I already have to pay big bucks (might as well be a licence) to access beaches and national parks… It would be a new tax (licence addition) on a tax (income tax) on a tax (current licence tax) on a tax (national park fees or beach licence or both) on a tax (GST) and I am sure more there are more taxes there somewhere…

    That is at least 5 taxes we pay already….. nope….

  • having to spend money will make some people think twice(hopefully the idiots who bush bash)
    also the heavier the vehicle the more the cost.
    define 4×4 as a vehicle with low range ie. can change from high to low gear range.
    a AWD vehicle is not a 4×4, all 4 wheels are driven but it does not have low range.

    there should be compulsory training and common sense training as well, the latter could be hard on some people.

  • pffft.. A brilliant idea that will give a separation to be able to extra tax 4×4 vehicles like in England…. Tell me they wouldn’t jump into that in a second….

  • Sorry Guys, see your point but I’m not keen at all, understand the problem, but a separate licence just takes away the beautiful freedom we have to explore this country.
    I work with young people every day, and there is so many rules on them these days, some good but others just stop people from learning what responsibility is, sometimes we learn better from making mistakes and from getting in trouble, hard to take but its true.
    How do most people learn best…on the job, making mistakes and learning from them.
    The idea of having to be part of a club sounds terrible, not that I don’t like clubs, but no offence our family is already a part of so many community things, having to be part of a club would just add one more thing to take up our families valuable time and restrict us from being able to take our kids out and educate them on our great world outside this concrete jungle of a city.
    sometimes we just need to realise some things come with responsibility, there will always be people who stuff that up, yes we can try and restrict it but at what cost? do we say you an no longer buy a tool from Bunnings unless you have been trained in the safe and responsible use of it? what about the basic DIYer does he now need a licence to buy a drill?
    likewise with 4wds training is great, but restrictions on who can own and drive I don’t think is the right thing. what about the family who does lots of towing do they now need a 4X4 licence to tow their horse float or boat? (yes im for towing training though, as that’s a very different thing) and most of us enjoy buying second hand 4WDS, there could be far less to choose from if owning one requires a special licence.
    I’ve seen plenty of bad drivers in 4wds, but Awd’s are just as bad and big now too and car drivers are also terrible at times. its not so much the vehicle, its the people.
    as people said above, all of us already have licenses and understand the laws, but people CHOOSE to break or ignore them.
    and as for backpackers, I know they get themselves into trouble, maybe before theyre allowed to drive at all in Aus you get some basic info for on and off road. but restricting it may kill off a very big tourism industry, ok for you and I who don’t work in that industry but I think those who depend on it for their livelihood may have something to say about it a little more passionately.

    Its an issue to investigate but don’t think this is the solution guys. hope my many strands of thought make sense.

  • I don’t think an additional licence or addition to licence would make one iota of difference. The world is full of idiots who like to prove one thing or another to their mates. The shame of it is that it is usually at the expense of others, in this case the true Wanderers who respect the bush.
    Just a thought, what about those of us who are in the agricultural industry? We are in and out of 4wd’s every day of the week and driving in all conditions and as varying terrain as you could find. I think it all comes down to commonsense which I know most of the clowns are sadly lacking. Because of that, the vast majority suffer again. And yep, we do have one hell of a Nanna society these days! (& yes, I’m an old bloke) 😊

  • What a load of rubbish, I thought Mr4x4 had more sense than this. This suggestion is a great way to reduce your readership numbers.
    Why advocate for more restrictions, we are already limited were we can go. Because of few bad apples you want different licences, the whole Kia to landcruiser example shows limited or lack of understanding of licence classes, remember it is to do with overall vehicle weight, not physical size.

    This discussion is a great way to destroy multi industries, and who ever suggested or supports this crap should not complain when tax is increased to pay for more people receiving the dole.

    And for the record, I hold licences from R to MC, are you really suggesting that someone licences to drive road trains needs a licence to drive a little 4×4 or even a towing licence for a caravan. I though 4wders would know better than to give ideas to a government to further control and limit us

  • Why would you penalise all people who drive a 4×4 with a special licence. Either take the licence off the hoons or make them get a special licence – a “hoon” licence

  • WHAT!
    Im done with the extended cost of living and topping up the coffers,
    Penalise the minority who take their liberty to cause the problems in the first place,
    confiscate their 4wd vehicles and do not give them back. Sell them and put that money back into
    policing.

  • There is many pro’s and cons for this. The problem is not that you have raided the issue, someone in a bureaucratic position will see this and pass it up the line, with the sole intent that it be an additional revenue raiser for governments.

    I would prefer to see a classification of user ability (endorsement) such as in heavy vehicles such as LR, MR, HR, MC, UC etc. This would be then a one off test instead of a year in – year out licence fee.

    Andrew Barfoot

  • I don’t mind the idea of a 4×4 or off road endorsement on a licence, but I think it needs to be done in a consultative approach and that everyone gets a say there is no use just going in guns blazing otherwise it won’t work. Many 4×4 are not only used for Recreational use but as a trade tool for work and Industry.

    An example is the original P plate regulations back when NSW said no turbo or V8’s for p plate drivers (bad decisions bad regulations) if it’s done right then everyone can win.

  • more crap from the leftist lunatics ,as a kid I could buy crackers and never new anyone that hurt anybody with them, I bought a semi auto 22 and walked down the main street of murwillumbah and no one looked twice at me ,(for rabbits on the farm ) every2nd bloke had a shotgun in the ute in case they saw a duck, no license required for any, only since these lunatics that are frightened of their own shadows did this all change, and we didn,t go round shooting people with with our guns,! a state forest we used to get wood in is now a national park, have to drive around 80 miles to get wood now, same greenies wanted to stop us keeping warm, fishing in river from tocumwal to yarrawonga closed 3 mths for breeding rare fish, for last 29 years I could catch any amount of 2 or 6 inch long baby fish they say are not there! 90% of fisherman catch nothing, just ask them, a new license for 4w4 wont solve anything, what are all the parks and rangers they put on with the fishing license money since it was brought in doing ? just more tax and if you ain,t living on the river notice how all the power bills have doubled with this same attitude to regulation

  • I love this can of worms,

    Many industries and organisations have a 4WD training requirement, no ticket no work.
    RIIVEH305E Resource Industry
    SISODRV302A Sports and Recreation
    FWPCOT3259 Forestry
    PMASUP236 Drillers, Plant Operators Mines
    TLIC2025 Transport Logistics
    All these are from different industry Skills requirements but all refer back to Basic Drive and Recover a 4WD.

    To make any up-skilling worthwhile there must be a reasonable reward.
    There is:
    Less damage to the vehicle (hip pocket reward)
    Getting from A to B without the stress, this does not exclude adrenaline for those harder tracks
    Less damage to the tracks, the environment.
    Your wife and family want to come along.. good for most people.
    Rewards such as cheaper insurance, I know that Club 4×4 give 10% discount for certified 4WDers. I wish my insurance company did the same.

    I believe that MORE (not less) 4WD tracks need to be opened to spread the load on NP’s and State Forrest.
    4WD parks (Pay and Play) need to be encouraged for those who want to play not tour. People need to do this in a set location (waivers to be signed) and not on the tracks.

    There is nothing better than seeing a 4WD handle a track without speed and wheels spinning, the realisation that 35″ tyres and 10″ lift is not the cure for bad skills is an eye-opener to many.

    Not just one thing will cure the plague of bad 4WD’ers, we need a clear path and direction, not banning, fining or constant new laws. I was young a very long time ago and still remember spinning my first wheel in mud.

    So in answer to the question.
    No we should not force everyone to take a 4WD course….. But everyone should want to take a course to make sure that they comply to the basics…

  • I do not agree with yet another licence. The information on the number of four wheel drives is already available to the government through registrations. Another licence would simply be another cost to us, create even more bureaucracy etc. Some may argue it may create more jobs, but EVERY ONE of those jobs would be paid by us. Not one single job would be productive to Australia or the people of Australia.

  • Not needed, there are anti hooning laws in place already. Record via video if irresponsible behaviors are witnessed and send to the authorities to deal with. People are sick of this country making new laws up all the time, more revenue that would make no difference at the cost of the public.

  • Back on topic we are talking about behavioural issues that has nothing to do with someone’s ability to drive a vehicle. If you want to question the driver’s ability to drive/control the vehicle that is why they need a driver’s license and the video clearly shows they know how to drive! Education changes behaviour it changes your opinion, belief and importance of seat belts, drink driving, speeding, texting, etc etc etc. To change this behaviour needs education and if that fails the people filming, park rangers and witnesses have the ability to report the behaviour to authorities for enforcement you have video and their rego. The driver made a bad choice then punish the driver please do not punish ALL the other drivers that made all the right choices they are not to blame for someone’s else’s bad attitude, actions or behaviour. And there is another behaviour problem in today’s world no one takes responsibility for their own actions, it’s always up to someone else to change or fix their bad choices. So in today’s world we are ever increasingly adopting the big brother nanny approach to each and every problem more regulation more enforcement. If the behaviour does not exist in the first place then you do not need regulation and enforcement to control that behaviour, in the first place it starts by dealing with the behaviour how do we achieve that? Because I know that I do not behave that way, do you?

  • No amount of regulation will stop idiots from hooning around no matter where.Perhaps an endorsement on a license from a club trainer or organisation would be advantageous but still wont stop idiots. I do not have a problem paying a couple of hundred to do a course which gives me knowledge BUT I do not see any and vantage in restricting entry to parks etc to only approved persons. Kills it for the normal touring person who does not belong to clubs.END result is Park rangers have to up the anti.
    Towing anything over 750 Kg should require an endorsement and license testing ,not just an eye test and thats good to go,be more regular particularly those over 70.No I am not biased I am nearly there ,reflexes slow down as do other physical attributes. In aviation its every 2 years ,rules change regularly and most have no idea even on the basics like how to indicate on roundabouts.
    Some of the rigs I have seen in traveling frighten the life out of me big vans ,small towing vehicle . There is still a huge lack of understanding of the difference between weights towable and legal. From a 4×4 view some of the roof rack loads are just frighting.
    Again NO regulation is going to deter the cowboys out there so the end result of another license will have no effect on hooning but may help the accident rate with towing large rigs.

  • Be very careful what you wish for, I think this will open a Pandoras box of reasons for NOT issuing these said licences and further restrict your choice to live the way you wish

  • Being 75 I thought I had just about seen it all – tickets for plant operators, machinery etc and the list goes on. In industry we have all the licences you can imagine to make it all safer but the incident rate still climbs yearly. I even have to have a medical exam yearly now and where does that go – in the glove box! I was OK at 74 years & 11 months and 29 days so what happened in the one day transition to 75?? I am really comfortable driving my 4×4 Nissan. Do I need a 4×4 licence – not really as a 4×4 is any car on the road and only is a 4×4 if we get off road then its not always in 4wd. Perhaps we should get a high clearance licence or a wide tire licence while we are at it. Maybe add a water fording licence as well as a snow driving licence??? I believe that we need to be more responsible for what we do and not – hey i can do that I have a licence!! The whingers need to get a life and go back to their nanny government for a handout!

  • An extra 4X4 licence is not required, all roads, tracks, highways are designated as official roads and we must abide by the current road laws for each State or Territory whilst travelling on these roads. Anyone who has the appropriate licence (car, motor bike, truck, heavy endorsed or articulated etc can do so. If anyone is caught hooning they can have their vehicle impounded, so why isn’t it appropriate for off roading. As an extra measure, the offending hoon should have to attend a vehicle training course (“anti hoon”) before getting their vehicle returned and the cost of the training course to be paid by the offending hoon. “If it ain’t broke, don’t try and fix it” especially when there are existing laws that could be utilised.

  • What a load of rubbish this is, it is already illegal to drive off road in those areas reported, how about just enforcing the laws we have now, oh wait there is not enough feet on the ground to cover this.. so lets just all agree for a seperate licence for 4X$’s , more money for ther government to squander, what is it with people in this country of late, wanting more and more regulations on us, as i said it is ALREADY ILLEGAL to do what has happened, lets get the authorities to act with the laws we have now

  • what about a test to determine if a politician or public servant has half a brain, ego driven ,money wasters, oxygen thiefs, no to a licence, hoons forever, lmao

  • This issue has been raised as a result of allegations of some drivers “hooning in National Parks” and presumably all that hoon type driving is done by drivers of 4WD vehicles – is there any proof that 4WD vehicles are the offenders and not drivers of “ordinary vehicles”? I am not in favour of a “broad brush” approach to all 4WD drivers having to hold a specific licence simply because of the above complaint, and following on if such licences did come into being, do we then introduce a specific licence for all those AWD small vehicles of which there are many and which, although significantly smaller than most recognised 4WD vehicle are quite capable of entering and do drive in national parks. (or a licence simply allowing a driver of any type of vehicle to enter a national park etc.?) Do we then also issue licences for performance vehicles as opposed to the mum and dad cars? (a 18-19 yr old can drive a Ferrari on a normal car licence) Perhaps we should also have a licence to drive a utility as opposed to sedans….and the list (and arguments go on). As part of my work I was licensed to drive heavy/articulated motor vehicles and a motor bike but since retiring I have asked to be re-issued with a lower class licence, although I do own and tow a 2 tonne caravan and in the 14 years I have owned a van, I think I have only been off bitumen onto gravel roads with my 4WD and van. As other people have commented, a drivers licence of any description does not guarantee the driver will drive in a proper manner.

  • I have a better idea. Lets make it like getting a licence for an aircraft. First you get taught how to drive in a manual (did they even come in auto) Datsun 120Y and get licensed to drive. Then you do a course and get endorsed for every different vehicle you drive. Off course the endorsement will only last 2 years and you will have to prove that you have done enough hours in that vehicle, or else redo the endorsement. Add endorsements for; 80kph zones, 100kph zones, freeways, dirt roads, 4×4, towing trailers <750kg, trailers over 750kgs override brakes, trailers with electric brakes. The list is endless, the opportunities for catching people doing the wrong thing would increase dramatically. More revenue, less freedom. Yep Lets Do It

  • I agree! I have a honda CRV not a huge 4WD auto.I am not likely to want to go beach driving,maybe just a main forest road so I don’t need the stress of pleasing morons who think we all need a special licence! Just a revenue raiser and aren’t they good at doing that!

  • Couldn’t have put it better myself Darren. Mark hasn’t made a case at all and a cynic might suggest it’s little more than a fishing expedition to help part of the industry out. The notion that a separate licence will somehow unite and give 4WDers a “voice” is complete nonsense. Organisations like that exist already and some of us wouldn’t have a bar of some of their aims or the people involved. I have a bike licence and have ridden on and off road. Different skills are required and you need to understand both environments and their rules. Don’t need a separate dirt bike licence to go off road nor do I identify with enduro hoons who tear up the environment.

  • I think licensing is a step too far. Simply using registration details of vehicle could provide numbers and statistics. Maybe every 4WD sold should come with training and use a type of national qualification card to show you hold that training (save multiple training scenarios evertime you buy a 4WD). I think this would cover some of these things. Might even help to control the shopping trolley scenario to an extent. Hoons are always Hoons. Like it’s said the empty vessels makes the most noise, so one hoon is the case in example. If you provide areas that can be accessed, monitored (sheez we have plenty of tech these days) and maybe even cared for by clubs then those hoon scare quickly identified and the clubs take pride in looking after and providing challenges for themselves and others.

  • What a load, just another in for another tax grab by our greedy money wasting Govt. It won’t make any difference what so ever as it can’t be policed. Any new license or TAX will just increase over and over until it’s another huge burden on top of the ridiculous costs of running any motor vehicle already. If you want to spend more money driving just sit back and wait (not for long) for the next hike in rego, insurance and fuel increase.

  • And who would identify and classify these “4WD areas” Andre? As a few have already said a licence doesn’t make you more competent or any smarter.

  • Good idea, my thoughts are if you hold a couple of licences eg bike- truck then your aware enough!
    I think the picture of the overloaded 4wd is full of fish 😳

  • Fair enough Ken but if there’s no separate licencing requirements surely there should be an open season on DH’s?

  • Ray, you do understand that the government is very much just a reflection of the voting public DON’T YOU….

  • What a load of crap. Just another piece of paper (and the associated cost) to further the “nanny state” mentality we already have on our eastern seaboard. How about they just use the rules / laws already in existence, and kick the dickheads off the road – permanently.

    And whom is going to “assess” the “assessors”. I went on a 4WD training course recently in Perth (it was a pre-requisite for a job I was going to work on up North). I’m in my 60’s, and can personally guarantee that I could drive rings around the to so called “instructors” we had on the day, both on and off road. One was an ex-copper, the other one was anyone’s guess, but sounded like just another wanker from 4WDAction. In short – neither of them could drive a greasy stick up a dog’s arse.

    So if we really do have to have a “special” licence for “special” people to drive off road, please keep them to Queensland, NSW and Victoria. The rest of the country doesn’t need your nanny state bullshit.

  • The varied comments above show the varied thoughts on this. But Jim L. sums it up beautifully in 2 lines. If pressure is placed on the authorities to do something the result will be to stop the problem with bans. This track, that track. National Parks authorities have already solved the problem of driver stupidity by banning all of us from most of their tracks. More of the same is all that will come out of this nonsense.
    If we are honest with ourselves we will admit that the huge number of off road capable SUV’s on our back roads and tracks can only threaten our fragile environment. Even the most aware and careful of us is not doing the environment any good; just varying degrees of bad. Demanding the authorities deal with off road stupidity will see us all tarred with the same brush and suffer the consequences.

  • Motorcyclists are separately licensed. they are also massively over represented in all crash statistics from minor injury to fatals. Clearly licensing and graduated restrictions have not worked here. What makes anyone think licensing a 4×4 driver will have any different affect. As with motorcycle training companies, most proponents have graduated form a low level course and then start teaching. My experience wiht most 4×4 companies is identical. And no-one of them can agree on a curriculum. So the end result is a driver licensed to drive poorly off road. The dickheads who ruin it for all of us will simply be licensed to be a dick head.

  • if you want to learn to drive in a off road situation you need to speak to people with knowledge and experience not a peice of paper saying you are qualified to do this,. A 4×4 club is a good basis to start to get that experience and knowledge
    k

  • Hey, lets get licenses for everything!! Lawn mower usage license. Ride a pushbike license. A license to breed (this might be good ) Plant a tree in the right spot license. etc. etc. and charge everyone a few dollars for the privilege.
    Fu*k off and get on with life.

  • Most 4WD’s wouldn’t leave the black top anyway. I would have done more off roading with my 323 than some of them. Having a separate licence will give no indication on how many real off roading 4WD’s there are any more than a motorbike licence says how many 1000cc motorbikes there are. Registration will give better numbers.

  • No it’s just money grabbing as usual leave it alone. Stop making excuses for another reason for making recreational activities harder theirs enough restrictions as it is.

  • Before being allowed to drive on my cousin’s farm as a youngster I was shown and instructed. Before being allowed to drive on the road I had to pass a test. Before being allowed to operate several types of military vehicles I received specific instruction. Before being allowed to operate heavy transport on our busy roads!
    .
    It then seems quite reasonable to me that all off-road drivers’ receive appropriate instruction – Don’t you think!

  • the reason bike have different licence because they only have 2 wheels and people who unable to balance shouldn’t be able to get one and the reason trucks do because there more than 4 wheels and A lot more weight involved and this would just be another money grab by government it fine the way it is like to keep some cash in my pocket

  • Hoons will be hoons no matter what they drive or ride for that matter. How many times can a licence be broken down into different categories?
    People have pointed out that motorcycles require a different licence than a car. So, if a licence is introduced for 4×4 offroad drivers then the next would be for motorcyclist’s to have a different licence to be able to ride offroad. The government would be over the moon with all these people coming up with more ideas for them to collect revenue and they haven’t had to even think about it.
    Well that pretty well sums up my thoughts so I’ll close with my opening statement, “Hoons will be hoons no matter what they drive or ride”.
    Cheers!

  • no we dont need a 4×4 licence we all need to take responsibility for our actions most 4×4 drivers are responsible and do the right thing a few are not we dont need to be penilised for the few,

  • I have read some of the commentary. What a bunch of tossers is an immediate conclusion. If you live in remote WA as I do, where much of the country’s real wealth is generated but there no, nothing in the way of infrastructure,no proper roads, no proper support services, you are lucky if the Flying Doctor can find you but you still have to pay exorbitant car rego fees for what? A 4wd is a necessity of life, not an indulgence that Perth city folk use on weekends to go to the beach. Simply nuts, so yes, there should be a different vehicle class for real 4wds

  • A standard drivers licence is all that is required to drive a vehicle on Australian roads whether they be a 4×4, AWD 2WD or any other configuration. All modes of transport require personal cognizance of individual responsibilities when driving. Most 4×4 drivers are responsible, aware of their vehicle capabilities (not always their own) but responsible nevertheless. Park permits regulate entrant behavior but do not control or manage the irresponsible entrants. No licence category will regulate behavior so, personally I am against a further impediment, to driving in general, which will impose further financial impediments on people, or create further administrative processes which will result in further financial impositions on responsible recreational drivers.

  • I totally agree with all your ideas and thoughts on this issue. However there is one outstanding point that is missing in the argument.
    Say for example if this law was introduced would all 4×4 owners and drivers who go off road and have been doings so for a number of years without any problems still be required to attend a 4×4 driving and license test or would they be exempt due to prior experience. I know that all these questions people have put forward is sure to open up a can of worms but I’m sure that common sense will prevail in the long run.

  • Not even close. They say what ever they think will get them elected and once they’re in they follow there own agendas, regardless of what we want.
    As for 4WD licences, I can’t say i’m in favour of them, they wont fix anything.

  • No, you can’t teach common sense so testing is a waste as would be a licence. I work where evryone has to be trained in 4WD use, most of the past 40years of courses were a waste of time. WHS either made it impossible to actually do any meaningful ‘field’ training and most employers back off at putting $50+K vehicles through creek crossings or up 40+ degree slopes. So you end up being put through powerpoint death. Skills will only be learnt doing over time. Those with commonsense will find either training and friends to learn with safely, idiots won’t. Just take those that prove to be idiots off the road, as it should be on or off road.

  • No extra licencing thank you. Now, We all know how the police are “expert” at placing speed cameras and the like at the precise locations where we all inadvertently drift a couple of K over the limit ( nice one ).

    If the national parks etc were really concerned they could very easily plant remote cameras at various trouble spots to ping hoons and the like.
    Saw this being done awhile back while in the Kimberlies on a conservation station. They had set up camouflaged cameras to monitor “ferals” ( cats). The cameras ( which were also infra red night capable) just sat there doing their thing and from time to time they were serviced by replacing their battery and swapping over their full memory cards to empty ones. Needless to say they were movement activated and outdoor proof.

    Nothing hard in doing that for our park rangers is there ? — but i bet they wont —. It’s really just a matter of setting them up, let them run and if there ‘s no issues record over it a week or two later. If there is hooning and the like ping them. Just make sure the cameras are set low enough to get rego’s and facial features.
    Most of the trouble experienced is directly related to the risk of being caught.
    I know , in my local suburban environment the local council (Logan) is prone to use covert cameras , for example, set up in a perked car or tied to a tree at known rubbish dumping spots or at playgrounds. I even once saw one tied up on a pole to monitor a local street.
    Another comment from out of left field is how these 4×4’s are advertised. These vehicles are not invincible, unbreakable or high speed water craft. Apparently ferals , hoons and the simple minded actually believe the hype

  • Cer Chink ! Cer Chink!
    Before my wife and I drove the Telegraph track 10 years ago we volunteered to do a 4wd course with a reputable trainer in Mareeba Qld, and were glad we did. A full day up hill, down dale, ruts creek crossings, sand, gravel and rock hopping. It was a worth while training day and gave us confidence to tackle thee Telegraph Track; all but Log bridge and Gunshot!
    Oh, by the way we were towing a Coromal Silhoette camper van at the time.

  • No definately not. If you over regulated southerners want a separate ljcence go ahead but leave the NT alone. We have 3 vehicles all 4x4s and I cannot remember when I last drove a 2×2 vehicle – probably 10 years ago!

  • What a load of rubbish. Talk about heading for a “big brother government.” I drive a 4WD but so far have not ventured off-road. I drive it because one day I might see a track and venture along it. And, if I don’t have an “off-road ” license, I’ll get booked by some money grabbing official. The answer is simple. Get the Police out there patrolling and catch the hoons red handed. That’s the way the law is supposed to work.

  • Why when these sort of discussions happen some people will jump to the agreement that it is just revenue raising? There are ways in which it could be done without socall revenue raising, it could be an endorsement on an existing licence, therefore there would be a additional cost at licence renewal time.

    I fully support in principle of the idea of having a seperate endorsement added to the existing licence rather than a whole new licence. It is a system we have in place already for everything from motorbikes to semi-trailers. I would also like to see anybody that tows, have to undertake a training course and have an endorsement added to their licence.

    But let us not forget that it’s not the vehicle that creates the damage or bad image by itself, it is the person behind the wheel, which you can never change by licencing. You can however restrict access to the people that don’t deserve the opportunity to show their contempt for the natural areas.

    I agree that there needs to be greater training, education and monitoring of people that drive 4WD vehicles and people that tow any sort of trailer.

    Ultimately, creating new licencing will not change the behaviour of some people but it will go a long way to riding the roads of people that use 4wd’s and treat them like a sports car on our roads.

  • Why don’t you city slickers mind your own business, we drive a 4×4 and have done so for years and we do not hoon around. However the hoons are the ones that produce tv shows and tell you to use a heap of power and trash the place and the vehicle. I have been taught how to operate a 4×4 and how to get somewhere and to do so in a safe manner and to do it so that I will be able to come back and be in a condition to do it all again. These #%@# that want to close parks and make people get additional licenses are the same ones that do not issue rego labels anymore for it will save money and the savings goes to them not reduce costs to the public. It is just an other way to rip off the public. There are places such as where I live that it is a requirement to have a 4×4 and that is for safety reasons and road conditions. The dangerous ones on the road are the ones that drive for to long and are fatigued and the city slickers who think they can drive and once out of the city think they can do anything. This subject has come up to often and it will only put ideas in the head of the bureaucrats to raise more money leave it alone.

  • What a stupid idea! We need another hook in our pockets for govt control and revenue? The nit wits and yobbos wrecking our 4×4 playground will do so regardless. We have so many ‘licenses’ for normal road use, trades, etc and there are many who don’t give a rat’s arse in that scope.
    What about the morons who use a regular vehicle to hoon, tear up the bush and litter out there?

    Maybe a better approach would be an Off-road Permit to allow you to have access to ungazetted roads (normal permits for Nat Parks, etc would still remain).

    The scheme could be run similarly to the Miner’s Right and have a reasonable period of ten years of currency for example.

    Ultimately, maybe more Rangers/Police out there and fine the idiots causing the trouble in the first place.

  • Who would be deemed to be a qualified instructor? and by who’s authority?
    A bit of a case of who taught the teacher.

  • Another licence,another fee, more rules and regulations. A licence doesn’t stop idiots being idiots or hoons. Cars, trucks and motorbikes are still overloaded even with a licence, and they all die the same with or without licence in a serious accident (sorry to say that ).even education doesn’t stop hoons, speeding or mobile phone use etc. 4wders and clubs do good things in the community, no need to change things.

  • instead of 4wd licences how bout putting an ma rating on tv shows that feature hoon behaviour as a staple.
    touring not trashing ..yeah right

  • Having to be part of a club to use the parks is ridiculous, I’ve never been a part of a club and never will be, I’ve had a look at some and have been disgusted with what they do. The clubs I looked at either don’t know what they are talking about, have no idea of safety when working on tracks around cars, don’t know how to off road drive properly (tyre pressures are never touched), drive to break something, and the list goes on.
    Not everyone who is not in a club is a DH and out to break their cars and destroy the bush.

    My family and I drive into National Parks and State Forrest’s to enjoy them and get away from the city life. A licence for the larger cars isn’t a bad idea, I just don’t feel it will happen because of the massive market that buy them and never take them off road, It would destroy part of the vehicle market that the economy can’t afford. Shame though, because the idea of us being represented with accurate numbers would really help with keeping tracks open and greenys off our backs.

  • What rubbish are they trying to foist upon us now!!! No we don’t need a special license to drive a 4WD. As for extra training, if you feel you would like to improve your basic driving skills off road, go ahead, it’s your choice and you’d certainly get enormous satisfaction by doing it. But it’s not needed. If you do the wrong thing on road or off road you might get away with it and you might not but the consequences for doing the wrong thing off road are potentially just the same as doing the wrong thing on road, however, the chances of getting caught are less off road than on. An extra license endorsement would probably give those with the propensity to hoon, to do just that, hoon. I know a driving instructor who practices drifting on dirt roads and sees it as fun, not hooning. He’s fully qualified to drive a 4WD and does it very skilfully. Is he hooning or just having very skilful fun? It depends if he gets caught or causes damage or if he has an accident. No we don’t need a separate license.

  • Ken H is on the right track ! You can’t legislate against “stupid”. Let’s NOT develop an ill defined “solution” for an even less defined problem! Licenses and fines don’t prevent the really stupid hoons from disrespecting social norms. It’s the possibility of being caught that matters. Licenses provide governments with ever increasing incomes which are seldom reapplied to the source of the income. Could somebody please explain how it is desirable to punish everyone for the stupidity of a few. It is not unusual for governments to require industries to police themselves, prior to legislation being considered. The entire 4X4 industry, including clubs, publications, vehicle and equipment businesses and other 4X4 users would be better served to be associated with and represented by a national peak body. [If one exists, it’s toothless!] Such a peak body could develop protocols and culture that would identify and isolate hoons as well as represent the majority of 4X4’ers who do the right thing, who act responsibly and don’t need Nanny Government to demand further payment for experiencing the pleasure of nature.

  • Spot on. I drive the for a living and I can tell you there is ALOT more caravans on the roads these days n a lot of them cant not tow and are not only a danger to themselves but to other road users, they also feel the need to park in the middle of parking bay. So if anyone needs special training n licensing then they should start there. In respect to hoons, book them double dollars n points n call it an idiot fine

  • I think educating the drivers through a course would be the best and easiest way to manage bad drivers.

  • Of cause we need a special license to use a 4WD and another one to tow a caravan and one to tow a small box trailer and another to travel in the rain and of cause another to drive at night and another to use a vehicle such as a double cab with a tray in case we haven’t learned how to tie a load on and don’t forget a car trailer with a car loaded, that is different from an unloaded one and then you will need another license to use your 4WD on the school run, another one for the beach and another for driving in the outback, a special license for driving on the freeways and one for using back roads, the list could go on forever, but the word stupidity comes to mind when I think of the person that made the first suggestion about licenses.

  • Not sure that a separate or extra license is the answer but I definitely agree that something needs to be done to regulate off road usage. Many tracks have now become impossible for the average 4×4 owner to access because of the over use and abuse of certain areas. Fire trails that continually get cut up by the 7 inch lift brigade not just going for a drive but “challenging their vehicles and skills”. I have even witnessed people wincing ranger placed sandstone blocks out of the way to get to a trail that was blocked obviously for a reason. Sensible 4x4ing seems to be getting eclipsed by honing and no that is not skillful fun, it is honing.

  • No sorry I don’t agree with this idea. I do believe in education. If you are a 4X4 there should be educational emails from the Main Roads about how we can drive safer. And updates about what accidents and what activities are condoned. Education and information. It should cover all areas. Cars bikes caravans campers trucks boats jetskis. A yearly info and statistics guide. Also results on blitzes to show what our behaviour patterns are. Results on accidents, and causes of serious harm and death. And I’d like to see reports made public about serious incidents so we can be aware of our behaviour. I know the worst accidents are always from fatigue or fatigue and stress, this combination is by far the worse. It makes you do things that are not of your normal behaviour patterns. It makes you snap.

  • licensing doesn’t stop poor driving practices on or off road ,Its driver behavior that needs to change.

  • Pushbike / bicycle riders first please – and while we are at it get them to pay registration for using roads as well.

  • Its expensive enough to get a 4×4 on the road without adding in more fees.
    Who’s going to enforce it anyway?
    Not enough cops to enforce blacktop without adding in parks so it wont be them.
    If its done by hidden cameras then you have the offending vehicles plate anyway – why add in a new costly license.

    Nothing changes except an additional cost to those that care.

  • Motorbike riders have to do a stay up right course, maybe something like that could be implemented for towing over a certain weight or length. It’s generally not the people towing box trailers are the issue but those towing large vans. I watched a guy and his wife try and reverse park their 30ft van into a camp site for nearly an hour a couple of months ago. Eventually he gave up and parked it parallel, taking up 3 camp spots which prevented other campers from using those sites. The thought of this bloke on the freeway at 100kph+ is pretty frightening.

  • As maybe one of the most experienced off road drivers in the country I believe that this is a typical city centric based idea which has no merit but but will become a revenue raiser for government and become a worry again for older drivers. Next you will want a licence to use a chainsaw, to use any motorised equipment such as a lawnmower because there are idiots who mow in thongs etc. Give me a break. Maybe you should focus your attention on those who drive heavy vehicles on the road in bare feet and thongs instead.

  • I agree with most .
    But its addresses driving off roads.

    I live near SUNNYBANK Qld and the choice of Asian drivers is a big four-wheel drives to protect the family as less of their family die if a little 4 cyclinder car hits your big 4×4. LIcencing might and will stop the sale to imports, who have no idea driving, let alone the Prados and dual cabs.

    If you dont beleive me, drive to Sunnybank in a little 4 cylinder. Even to Police are scared to drive that area.

    I am Happy to sit a test, but would the imports. Its a privalidge to Drive all over Australia Not a Right, and lets get the 15 point parking idiots out of 4×4 and maybe even off international licences

  • I agree totally with Malcom . Why should we all pay for the irresponsible actions of a handful of brain- dead idiots? If you see them, take their number and dob them in, this is not my way of doing things and may be unAustralian, but these morons deserve no better.

  • Thank you Al. I am a grey nomad who learned to drive on rough dirt roads at the age of 15 (61 years ago) I have a 100 series Landcruiser to tow our caravan & if we are told of a good scenic sight that requires a bit of “low range” stuff to get there, we go & have a look. I don’t need another form of license for that. Also, who would get the job of actually defining what “off-road” is?.

  • First, has anyone considered who would define “off-road” driving? Second, many of the older drivers of 4×4 vehicles probably grew up in areas where there weren’t sealed roads. I learnt to drive on rough unsealed roads at the age of 15 because apart from black top16 kms out of town, it was rough unsealed road for several hundred kilometres in any direction. There were very few 4×4 vehicles then so we took ordinary 2wd sedans into places that now only 4×4 drivers dare go. We older grey nomads now use our 4×4 to legally tow our caravan & if there is a recommended scenic sight that requires a bit of “low range” driving to get to it, we go. (without the caravan of course).

  • I think the separate licensing idea has merit, however how far do we go with it. Does a newby have to pass a certain standard of off road capability, will they have to do a safety course to learn about snatch straps, winching, how to use Maxxtrax etc. Having a separate off road license won’t stamp out hooning. You are never going to get rid of every moron but to be counted could wield us a bit more power at the political level. I will be watching this subject with much interest to see where it goes. I have been a great advocate of a caravan towing license because of the number of people who think they can take charge of 6 to 7 tonne of rig when they have had no prior experience of driving a heavy vehicle. Is it the same for 4WDs, are there too many people out there who buy a 4WD and have no idea how to use it. I’ve come across a few on the tracks I’ve done, I guess we all have. Does this mean we should have a separate license, we’ll see what the powers that be say, when they get around to it.

  • No way — Just another way to command and control our lives. If your rig is road registered we already have a licence. If you need to learn how to drive offroad, join a club or hang out with some like minded mates. Idiots that do burnouts on the roads and drag race don’t get a special licence. They are subjected to the same laws as the rest of us so the same should apply to those that abuse national parks or use their vehicle in an unlawful way. There are enough Nanny state laws as it is.

  • Main stream road users are not all experienced drivers either particularly the way some over correct in a slide situation or the simple driving too close to the vehicle in front, scary. A defensive driving course for new drivers is probably a better approach a new licence is not the answer, increasing categories will not provide experience and knowledge.

  • Just about every farmer and cattle property owner in the country owns a 4wd. Can’t imagine them lining up to get a 4wd license. It will never happen just like all the talk in the past about banning bull bars ect.

  • I wonder if anyone thinks these things through. First issue for me is what’s a 4WD and what is off road? What is a gazetted road and what isn’t is a very curious thing, with implications for recovery, insurance, etc. What is a 4WD? Well it seems to me that, practically, it could only be based on the compliance plate (MA vs MC).
    Let’s think this through. If a special license was required for MC vehicles, there would be an incentive for the manufacturers to ‘do a Jeep’ and not do off-road compliance. Soon enough all vehicles would be road vehicles (MA), as there would be more customers for that category. Result: 4WD as we know it would end, most people living in the bush and all people in agriculture would be left with no chance of making appropriate modifications to their vehicles (even tyres), and would have no warranty, no insurance, and would be driving illegally. This is not practical.
    Moreover, as a Prado owner, a very capable vehicle if a bit boring, driving it is more like driving a Corolla than driving a Corolla is like driving a Ferrari. It would make much more sense to have special licensing for powerful cars, sports cars, etc.
    Basically, my point is that this 4WD / off-road licensing thing is completely impractical crap.

  • Yes and the authorities should be out there and follow up on all reports. AS for clubs well that is a laugh, I have been in the situation where I was camped with my two young boys when a 4×4 club came into the area late at night and proceeded to wheelie around our camp throwing gravel over our vehicle and tent just because they wanted that spot. I must mention that this was many years ago but it turned me off clubs. As for licencing, gun licences have only removed guns from responsible people, the criminals and idiots still have them so that proves a licence is not the answer, enforcement of the existing laws and heaver penalties with crushing hoons 4×4 may help the situation. as somebody said previously the stats are already in the system, it’s called vehicle registration, we know exactly how many 4×4 vehicles are on the road it just needs the enforcement of the laws / rules and being responsible for your own actions. Oh sorry that may be politically incorrect now!

  • I love this topic because the responses you’re getting are from reasonable people who care about the 4wd experience. The requirement for a license has very little to do with bad behaviour. Most road users have a license yet we still see dangerous behaviour on our roads. The answer is simple but difficult to achieve. Keep reminding new learners that education is key to success and we’ll be half way, the rest is up to us.
    Just a quick note on big rig towing. I am a supporter of a towing license for rigs above a certain combination weight. Same point for mandatory anti-sway systems for big vans. I hate to say it, but the Kiwis have an annual Warrant of Fitness system to keep vehicles on the road to a safe standard. Safe driving troopers.

  • There is always going to be stupidity but you can’t legislate against stupidity. The only way stupid people will learn lessons is to lose their license for significant periods of time. Don’t punish those that do the right thing. I have 2 4×4 vehicles. One for the farm and one is my tow rig and have never had an accident or lost points on my license so leave me and my license alone and punish those stupid people that refuses to learn the lessons of respect for our country and it’s law abiding road users.

  • Not needed , l have 4×4 to go fishing down some very rough government roads ,i already pay rego for i am not a 70 year old hoon.

  • Don’t forget most people living in the country nearly all own and drive a 4×4 it is just a way of life when you live in the bush so it’s not really fair and really not needed to have a separate license for people who own and drive a 4×4

  • Ok, Motorcycles need a different licence because they only have two wheels people,,,,,two,,,,,,think about it,,,,,,trucks have a different licence because they are big,,,,really really big,,,,think about it , if you have a little truck you use a car licence. I already have a care licence why should i have to pay more road tax to get another licence to drive a vehicle that Im never going to take off road, and , is only the size of a car that would mean I have to have two licences, are you kidding me. Now lets look at the “hoons in national parks ” bit,,,how about the law and national parks do something about stopping access to these places and not punish the daily driver. Most and I believe the greater percentage of 4×4 owners never go off road with their cars, they either tow as we do or just want to be part of the crowd, so stop being greenies and jumping on lets do this bandwagons and look at common sense two licences for every car owner is what it will come down to so no,,,, no way forget it, its a revenue thing dont get sucked into it.

  • In vic, a red p plater is not allowed to tow, unless displaying “driver under instruction” plates with another fully licensed driver next to them.
    A green p plater can tow without instruction.

  • Definitely not needed, car licenses haven’t stopped hooning. You are always going to get the hoon element regardless of what you do.

  • I personally think a you shouldn’t need a special license to drive a 4wd, a training course wouldn’t hurt for first timers & a refresher course every 5yrs etc,on the new road rules that being introduced & practical driving. I strongly believe if you need or want to tow a van a special license is needed, you will need to prove you can drive. As a truck drive he has to prove he can drive the truck safely. I’m a professional bike rider and I need to do a (HART)refresh course every 2yrs, it’s part of my job. It doesn’t matter how long you have been driving everyone should do a course every 5yrs road rules are always changing. I strongly believe L drivers should do a course to prove the operate the motor vehicle first before getting there Leaners, just as a bike rider has prove he or she can ride a bike before getting there learners no matter of there age.

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